Andrew Michael  
Hi, Yahav. Welcome to the show.

Yahav Hartman  
Hey, Andrew, how you doing?

Andrew Michael  
I'm doing great. Thanks. So, for the listeners. Yahav is the founder and CEO of Magic, a full stack Facebook advertising platform. Prior to magic exia was the founder of ROAS Royce media, a Facebook advertising agency specializing in promoting the world's biggest luxury brands. Yahoo was also previously the VP of advertising products at emesis where he was responsible for the advertising business unit. So my first question for you is, what is it about advertising that is drove you to build a Korean company around it.

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah, so basically, I started my career in an email marketing company. So in the retention business itself, and as a supplier providing retention solutions, I always saw how much how like how much our company was charging. And as a junior, and as a junior employee in the company, I was thinking it's a lot. But as time went, and I got exposed into the ad world, I saw how much money there is in this industry, and how much brands are actually paying to buy ads on Google and Facebook and other major ad platforms. And it was just super interesting for me to figure this out, figure this work, how to manage all those budgets efficiently, which really kind of attracted me back then.

Andrew Michael  
Interesting, and just maybe for the listeners, maybe you want to give us an idea of some of the budgets that you're working with and some of the brands

Yahav Hartman  
So yeah, I mean today, magic calm. So with magics we're managing around 100 million dollars a month in their Facebook ad spend. We're now also introducing the goal. Go channel. So hopefully we can double our growth and manage spend. So actually, our mission is to reach $1 billion in manage ad spend. So around like 10 or so 11% of our journey. And now we're basically building an autonomous ad buying machine that can that can control, manage and implement. And basically, yeah, basically make the most out of your ad budget.

Andrew Michael  
And when you say like, make the most out of the ad budgets, like, how does the system work? How does it optimize the ads for you?

Yahav Hartman  
So basically, the system is it's actually it's a whole platform that is built out of seven different areas, that each area has one or two product insights and a bunch of features. So at the end, we, in order to master Facebook advertising, it's not enough just, you know, just to just to like, cover a few areas, you really need to master each and every sub area of the business. It can be in Facebook advertising, Google advertising. For example, for example, just on Facebook, you have around like you have like today, suppliers that all there's a company like that all it does is do bit testing and another one for audience creation. And another one for bidding optimization and split testing and creative insights and creative intelligence and ad copy insights, and budget optimization. There are just so many tools and like point solutions out there that do only something small out of the hole test that you that an ad buyer in the professional media buyer should do when he's managing that. So we're kind of uniting all of those different areas in one platform, with the goal of improving ad performance as a whole, because you really got to have all of those elements working together to make Facebook advertising successful.

Andrew Michael  
For sure. And how long have you guys been going now holds the company But as yet,

Yahav Hartman  
yeah, so we're about two years old. We had the we've been in development kind of instinct for a long time. And in the beginning, I just kind of gave the tool for friends and other agency owners that I knew from from the business. And around one year ago, we had the first customers a bit a bit more one one year, like 1314 months ago. And we've been scaling and growing pretty fast. We're also a bootstrap. So yeah.

Andrew Michael  
asking us so two years like you said, you were in stealth for a while as well was that including the chairs or as a company two years in total, then

Yahav Hartman  
so two years I'm still mode and then something like five months afterwards. We went out and opened it for alpha beta usage. Cool. So then they and today we're already with thousands of customers and again managing hundred million dollar a month in ADS. Spend, including enterprise clients like his knives and a lot of other large clients in the e commerce retail space. Also in SAS business, by the way, huge and the biggest lead generations out there, overall managing hundred million dollars a month in ad spend and actually in on Monday or Tuesday, we're actually releasing our Google product. So we're going to omni channel cross channel

Andrew Michael  
merging. So you've seen some pretty rapid growth in obviously Since launching and since offering a paid solution to the topic of the show churn and retention. How is this looking for you at the moment? Magic x.

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah, so since our growth was it was kind of like so, so quick. So we've been growing like crazy, like the last eight months, and I always felt like it's, it's when you when you grow like let's say you grow 4050 k Mr month while you're still kind of small and are in your company. Felt like retention is not like a it's not a core. It's an important metric. But it's not the most important metric to, to track because when you grow so fast every month, your retention rates can change so rapidly so it can be like too early to try to reach any insights from it. Yeah, there's like, you know what I mean, the land is changing so quick. And what happened was what what looks like a retention problem this month, maybe next month, like kind of like it can disappear. Yeah.

Andrew Michael  
So is it something that you've been looking at in the early days or it's something which is really big due to the rapid growth has not been like a focus for the company?

Yahav Hartman  
First of all, it's when it's not a focus. I said that the retention rate itself, the rate or the numbers of the retention was not the focus it was more about the focus was the learning to understand why people canceled This is for me, this is like the actually one someone else subscribes and magics it's the only place in the magic user can reach to talk in order to have a talk with the CEO. So I actually offer even there, I opened my calendar for two hours a day. And because we don't have so many cancellations anyway, but if we have one, I really want to know exactly why the root user concept. This is kind of my paths into the business and always be connected. Make sure we're right with product strategy, understand how we could keep the clients like for me, this is the most important indication in terms of shaping the future of product strategy and roadmap. On one hand, that's the retention. And then on the other hand, is acquisition. And they see a stronger correlation between acquisition and basically the retention. And I feel like companies that have like really amazing acquisition, amazing marketing, they it could like immediately hit their retention rates because they're just so good at converting or Dude, you're getting a lot of customers. So it's and also in terms of numbers, it's always kind of about like balancing acquisition and retention, like understanding like, okay, what's my lifetime value? What's my cost of acquisition, especially in the early days? Because there is just like a growth machine? How can you like, you know, find this, this, this scaling formula, and to know how much to press on the gas in terms of like ad spend and scaling?

Andrew Michael 
How do you do it?

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah, that's the that's the million dollar question for every business. I mean, I mean, attribution in general, it's like, I think it's the biggest problem to the advertising industry, not to talk about all the privacy and everything that comes. And it's already hard today. So now Apple and Google are just actually making it even, most probably make it even harder. So so this is actually I think it's a company in the early stage or the mid stage that the most important even actually an enterprise company doing 100 million

Yahav Hartman  
For, for me, that's at the end of the day, like, in terms of business strategy, those are the most important things you need to control, like, how much a customer is worth for me, how much does it cost to acquire them? How can I optimize for higher lifetime values? And how can I, as a CEO, or as a product guy, think about how can I improve the product that my lifetime value grows, then I can afford more for customers? Increasing that period? Yeah. So how we do it technically, we basically when we were actually using magics to, we're running around Facebook ads with magics. So we're growing magics, like with magics. And actually, our platform is also like, it's from the core of it, it's built based on even though like it may be considered an ad tech company, we actually are a lot more like a marketing company because we're combining. Basically, we're using marketing Technology in technologies and tactics, and we're applying them also into that tech work. So for example, platform, immediately when you sign up to metrics and login, you will see that it reclassifies your audience we're using, by the way, a Python module for this. And we thought the system how to identify if an asset and this is where the audience also lives is it the prospecting audiences, the retargeting audiences through attention audience. So the same way this is structured the same way we educate our customers. And the same way we work ourselves when we we look at growth, we're trying to, we're basically it's also built into the platform. So that's why it's so interesting that you're asking it because we're basically running this AR strategy. So acquisition retargeting retention, and we know I mean, we know our lifetime value, it's something everyone knows the lifetime value, and if they don't know they can just log into stripe and they see it and look at their dashboard. Then see what it says. But at the end of the day, like, yeah, once you know your lifetime value, and you can make sure that you are basically in that that's the next step you need to decide as a business, how risky you are. Do you want to operate on a low Rojas or hire us? What's the payback period? You're looking to hit a what's your payback, payback, advertising, ROI, basically return on, on ad spend, like how many months of recurring business do you want to aim for? So if you're, if you're a very conservative business, you might say, Hey, I just I want to, I want to like, you know, cover my cost of the first month. In the beginning, you want to be very profitable, and then you can say, you know what, I'm more comfortable for attention. I'm going for two months in three months and, and the more you it's a kind of a dynamic process, and also today, even today that we're already a large company We're still a still every month for ad bank team. And then we're looking at where's our retention? What is it? What have what was our lifetime value? Okay, it grew. And how much do we want to afford? Now there's the Coronavirus, how do we want to how do we want to react? Do we want to stay at our target? Or do we want to cut our target now to be much more, you know, like strict and just aim for for for two months period, or three months or six months it? Again, it's a really dynamic process. And even if you aim for three to six months, it doesn't mean that this is your breakeven period. Because maybe as a business, you just want to that's the place where you want to be in terms of profitability that that then can could be spent on product development and improving the product. So also, as a business owner, I'm thinking Wait, should I should I push more budgets into hiring more developers or should we just close the lifetime value cost of acquisition gap? Yeah. So it's it's always a question kind of where you want to be and where do you aim like is for the long term? Are you building a huge business? Awesome. But yeah, I really love this topic. And I believe that that's how you grow businesses. For sure.

Andrew Michael  
I think so like David Skok in his SAS metrics 2.0. He highlights LTV CAC ratio, as one of the top metrics to keep you on track with growth and should always be aiming for higher than three gives you a good idea sort of if you can push on the pedal and advertising and push more money into ad spend, or if you need to lift the pedal up a bit and then start to become a little bit more profitable. Stephen V is interesting balance. I think that you need to crack all the time I need to keep a constant pulse on. You mentioned something that I think is interesting as well was that and I loved it that you have this open hours that you can speak directly to train customers and they can book a call directly with you. What is sort of the type of things and questions that you're asking during this call from these churned customers? What usually Trying to learn and what are some of the conversations go like? Mm hmm.

Yahav Hartman  
So it's, for me, it's like a complete First of all, every time I go on a on a call with a customer, it's the first thing at the end of the day, like, it's people that want to unsubscribe, or people that unsubscribe. Yeah. The that's the moment they reached this. Yeah. So the first thing for me is to make sure that they're, they're still, I mean, that they're happy with the, with the company, and you know, that we give them if they want to, for some reason, refund, get it if they, if they want additional money for free. For me, the most important thing at the end is that the customer is happy. That's what it was called for. And then for it's for learning. And in terms of learning, and I would like I'm like friends with all of our customers in a way. Yeah. I just really want to know exactly like, you know, how was the How was their usage and what they were using it for? And how they've been using it and what was missing? Yeah, what was missing? Why did you consider these type of questions? And I like, every time they would answer like, I find I can narrow 99% of the cases, unless it's a COVID. The reason that people cancel is that they're missing something or they're not satisfied for something. And I always find that those are things that we're either already aware of and working on. And then we have also the mock ups and we have mock ups for each of the product, roadmap, everything. So it's really important for me to understand what the customer was missing. Bring to him the software, the mock ups, and the future, like where we're heading to share this information with the customer. And then to ask like, hey, if we would have this feature if we would have this product would you say is this what you're looking for if we had this this and that like I don't know if if you know, like it These type of questions and then you really understand why customers are leaving it, strengthen your product, roadmap and decisioning. And once you release this new feature or fulfill this need of the customer, you can always bring him back. Hey, we just got it take a free month here for two software. I'd love to hear your opinion.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah. And how are you going about sort of valuing the different type of feedback from the different types of churning customers, because you mentioned yourself earlier as well. Like, if you have a really aggressive acquisition strategy, you can see big growth, but that at the same time can have an impact on churn and retention. And I think, often the reason is because you end up acquiring a lot more of your ideal customers who want to call it that way, and less of the ideal customer profile. So when it comes to sort of churning customers, and Tom's move of aggressive growth, where you might have more customers signing up using their product, but weren't really your ideal customer profile. Do you have a way were you sort of gauging that during these calls and trying to make a decision on is this good feedback that we're listening to now? Or is it coming from somebody who was never really meant to be a customer to begin with?

Yahav Hartman  
I don't know hundred percent. I mean, at the end of the day, like we, you know, the end we I mean, we charge based on adspend. So once we talk to, for us a good customer, like, the more someone spends, the higher the package you will have, and obviously, the router customer pays for us. So we, of course, can annoy it in advance. If we prefer the quality, maybe maybe just understand what's the persona of the client? Is it like an SMB is as the solopreneur is, you know, like a medium sized business, maybe it's an enterprise, unfortunate 500 company. So all of those brands have like, different needs and it's more about like, for sure, we always know that they're like that they're worthwhile customer, they fall under the our ICP because at the end, we just, I mean our solution is for people that like are spenders, people that already spend money with Facebook as there are advertisers and their active advertisers. So it's really just about this already qualifies. And then it's just about like understanding like, Who's the persona and and then yeah, and then like tailoring the insights into the persona and forwarding onwards for them for the product in improving always improvement. Nice and I think you've got a good easy proxy as well to understand. If someone sits in your ICP, just looking at deadspin, you immediately gauge sort of is this customer right for your business?

Andrew Michael  
So the next thing I'll tell us why you mentioned in terms of like the tool itself, it's focused in three areas acquisition, retargeting, and retention, maybe talk us through sort of the retention component, how are some of your customers using Facebook ads for retention? How do you yourself perhaps use it as well? Now you mentioned earlier around acquisition activation.

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah, I mean, retention advertising or retention in general is a goldmine and retention advertising is, is the best thing you can you can do to reach Customers wherever they are, because even if you look at, I mean retention is very much known to be like email, right? But if you look at email open rates, it's only like a 20% so if you're lucky like 25 and most probably like if you look at unique people, it's like 2530 maximum if you're a good company, you can reach those people with your emails, and any any communication you want to do with your existing customers. So of course if you're an e commerce it's obviously we should run retention advertising and just like sell more products to existing customers, or just communicate with them like you know, if it's like, there's a special sale or something or any of that anything of value. You can, you can send on words. But when you're like SAS business, then I find like we're using like retention advertising in an activation on the free trial. We want to target our on people start a free trial with content with demos was like, engaging with them as much as we can and exposing them to our contents and And then once they become a customer then most probably there's like, depends on on the message you want to you want to like send. But ads could could could still be like a complete viable thing to do for for for a SaaS business, because it's all about like, again, everyone that wants to reach his customer with any kind of message. Retention advertising is the way to go.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah, definitely, I think it's really one of those untapped channels for a lot of companies. And obviously, most people just see like Facebook ads, or different ad channels as an acquisition channel. And don't I think they miss out on a lot of the opportunity and the potential it has when it comes to getting a message in front of your customer and really pushing for engagement and updating them. I think just given a practical example of sending out an email to update customers on a new product feature, like you say, 25%, maybe 30% if you're lucky, you're gonna read that email. But getting in front of the channels and the eyes of the customers where they are and the in the content they're consuming is a very, very powerful way to sort of bring them back into the product to raise awareness for what's been happening like, how are you using it in your business when it comes to activation? You mentioned sort of during the trial are you doing anything fancy in terms of sudden event based based on different actions they've taken within the app triggering ads on Facebook or what are you doing there when it comes to activation to get them on boarded correctly?

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah, so we have basically retargeting journey just like you have like an email journey where they want you have a welcome and then you have a demo. And then you have a consultation call and then you have no, it's highly depends on the persona that you segment. And so with Facebook advertising, you need to have a minimum custom audience size of 100 people in order to, to target customers. So as long as you're a large business, like we, for example, we just go for like zero to one day, one, day, two, day, three day four day 5677 ad sets. For example, for the seven day free trial week. And then we can really make sure that we also tailor the contents according to the to where they are within the trial period. So that's, that's quite advanced to do and you got to have some like you need to be quite large in order to Yeah, it's only as like a tactic for like for mid, mid and above like

Andrew Michael  
size size brands. It also makes the CPM like a bit more expensive. So and yeah, there's a few different disadvantages for this, but it gives you like a complete control over like, who's in what and what's the sequencing of things. So it's a it's highly effective. And when you say it's highly effective, sort of what do you see is the return on adspend like doing it versus not doing it? I'm sure you there's a time when you just decided that you weren't using it as a channel like Did you see any significant gains how you experimenting with this as well obviously, like emails channel that you can experiment quite a bit.

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah. So we basically we can see the the return on adspend for each one of those days, separately. Overall, we never did like a brand lift or an experiment if we should be running this because it's quite obvious for us that we should because it's more as the same content like from the email marketing and the journeys, the marketing automation. So, for us, it's like we already know it works. And we already know it brings value. It helps train people on the product, it gives them insights and valuable information. So it proved to work so whenever like fought, like, should we really test it, but actually, if you look at it from from, like, from a different perspective, at the end of the day, it's kind of like steals the attribution from your prospecting ads, because you're just bombarding like people as they started trialing, like the most probably going to see like their Facebook works in the last touch attribution model. So they're more likely to see like your activation ad sequence, and one of those ads rather than converting straight from your prospecting ad. And so I'm not sure if I made this point clear earlier, but initially the way we are When we decide how much we should be spending on acquiring customers is looking purely at at the cost like basically a total return on adspend. For for acquisition, yeah. So for example, if you want to be at the payback of one to three, and like in the payback of three months, you want to be at a return on adspend of 0.33. Yeah, I'm assuming you're just transferring Facebook the values for for the first transaction. And that's exactly how we take the decision. So once we implemented this retargeting journey, we know that we noticed that it actually stole I mean, we noticed we knew that it's going to kind of like steal attribution from the prospecting ads. And then overall your account Ross is just higher and an acquisition you can now instead of operating like, I don't know, if you've been operating, it's like 0.8 throw us and now you go down you can afford going down next to zero. point four. So you can kind of like find this magic number and that you want to be at and because again, the important thing is if you know what are your prospecting campaigns and you're also excluding existing customers and retargeting audiences, you can be hundred percent sure that if people convert on your acquisition campaigns that it's a complete new business and you can actually trust the front end numbers of Facebook for scaling decisions. So that's kind of for me was the biggest kind of like, I wouldn't say it was this the only thing kind of like it affects the strategy and other components. But other than this, it was kind of like obvious for us that it's, it's worth doing and we saw a lot of conversions on those retargeting journeys. Just wanted to share like, a small thing you should take into consideration if you if you decide to do this tactic.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah, it definitely is like a very interesting channel to be used and taken advantage of and obviously it's a channel that does come with sort of an expense to it. But ultimately that expense as well could be lost business in the form of people never really activating, never really getting to that point where they see the true value of your product or service. So, and you hear time and time again, it's a lot easier to acquire, to retain an existing customer than it is to acquire a new one. And at the same time, since you've already had that initial acquisition point, and you've already got them on boarded to your tool, like maximizing that activation period, and making sure they get to value is just using it as a channel. Just another really, really effective way to retain customers for longer. I love that. So the next thing I was interested in you mentioned it as well, earlier was in terms of privacy and advertising and the way things are moving you mentioned sort of apple and Safari what they meaning with browsers Firefox and now Google Chrome, with cookies like how do you see this impacting the advertising industry in terms of like you mentioned, as well attribution being key to being able to understand sort of how effective your marketing is and knowing which channels are bringing you the best customers with the highest LTV. What do you see sort of some of the shifts in the landscape? How do you see things progressing over the next 12 to 18 months in the ad space? Hmm.

Yahav Hartman  
I mean, the main shift, I see that that are gonna, like, it's not clear, like which direction it's gonna, it's gonna make like take. But first, but it has to be either to continue and rely on the on faith, for example, as it as a as a Facebook ad all in one ad platform we can either rely on on Facebook or Google and rely on the platform's themselves to collect this data. Because imagine if it's important for us, it's 100 or 1000 times more important for Facebook and Google, of course, to have this data, right, because that's, that's the whole business. So I kind of like on one hand, I trust. I trust the tech giants and the walled gardens to come with their own solutions. And they have, as you said, as we talked earlier, like really powerful teams and talented engineers and they can get things done. So that's one thing but on the other hand at the same time, Not just to rely on them. And I feel like advertising is going to kind of go into back in time. You know, like if that if there's no cookies or there's like less time of cookies and the tracking is messed up, people will have to go back to basics just like TV advertising 40 years ago, which is basically going back into geo, geo targeting and then like measuring the uplift by g'slinn, especially if you're like, you know, ecommerce stores as business selling worldwide. It's very easy kind of like to, yeah, to attribute like, increase in growth in a particular region or in the installs. Compared to your ad spend, you'll most probably get a very, very good

picture of how your advertising is doing.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah, I think as well like in terms of, as you mentioned, the walled gardens, Facebook and Google that's definitely something it's the bread and butter and something that they need to protect and come up with ways obviously I think like Facebook themselves, switch to the First party cookie quite a while back as well as a precaution already and really starting to think of alternative ways to be able to keep track and be able to give you the attribution and insights that you need as well. So I see it from that side also do see as well, I think they'll probably be a little bit more emphasis on the creative component again, like you mentioned that going back in time a bit, but not having that full picture that you need, you'd want to really make sure that you are standing out and hopefully we'll start to see a little more creative coming back into the mix as well and having a little bit more of a focus point was really needing to capture the attention because you're not knowing where it's coming from as well.

Yahav Hartman  
And Jude and geotargeting I think it's gonna be huge me for now, if we, I don't know for example, we created the ad in German or not in Hebrew and then we run it in Germany or Israel or we immediately see spike in sales even without from this country even without looking at the you know, the ads manager or RBI. Conversion performances, you can see a direct correlation between like new business and the region that you're targeting. Yeah, that's for me. Like, I'm quite sure that this is like one of the best, like fallbacks

Andrew Michael  
works. And when it comes to sort of GDPR and privacy, because I'm not actually 100% on this when it comes to advertising, NGO and geographies, like can you still collect IPS or what you're saying is just really when you're driving ads, you selecting a region and then on your side you measuring the data from our serving from that region.

Yahav Hartman  
So for example, in the magics when you when you just like launch a campaign, we automatically sort all of your countries by Rojas and amount spent, I can easily say I want to just start with my most profitable regions look at the amount spent, like really simple I just look how much are we spending this week? And maybe like if you're if your sales funnels like it takes like one two weeks for people to close and measure the results in two weeks and then look like what's the correlation between like increased adspend and, and the noose new business compared to you know, like to just like the average that comes from this region from Alaska.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah, so sense. Cool. So the next thing I wanted to ask you then is something ask everybody that joins the show. And it's let's create a hypothetical scenario where you've joined a new company, and you're at this company in China, retentions really not doing great. The CEOs come to you and asked for your help to try to turn things around. And they need results faster. They've given you 90 days to try and make a dent, what would be some of the things you'd want to do it that those first 90 days to get some results for the company?

Yahav Hartman  
I would, I would invest the first 30 days just talking to customers, meeting customers in person talking to them. I'd actually aim to talk to every customer in the company, or at least like, I don't know, a significant percentage, like scientific cigarettes. So definitely significant percentage of customers inside in different sizes and personas. And then the next 30 days just like planning like, around the problems and everything and then just like the last 30 days just execute on start executing on on, on the strategy and the learnings. Yeah, every like too many companies are just not talking to their customers. That's why we're, we're now like, we have a project now actually, also, we're talking to every customer that canceled with us in the last like year, we're talking to all of them. Just Just like, you know, like, call them up, reach them, like get them into a call, Hey, what's going on? I was you know, how things change since and like, show them what we've been through what we've done, and perhaps maybe a small offer to get them back started again.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah, it's important I think definitely, every time we asked this question on the show, it always comes back to speak to your customers, because they're the one that understand the root problem and the reasons for churn and but

Yahav Hartman  
but it's easy to say but at the end people need to do those calls. You know, if you want to break it down further, it just like have a calendar and say, I don't know like five hours a day. Like, there's just customer calls, get someone to fill this calendar for you. Yep, just like speak to customers and everything comes from there and just to speak to them, like on the phone, even on emails or any other communication.

Andrew Michael  
Yeah, definitely. I think what I found as well with customer like calls and speaking to your customers, it always comes at a time when there's a problem, or when things are bad is when we sort of customers and companies panic and say, okay, we need to be speaking to customers. But when times are good, like it's so often neglected as well. And I think for me, that's one of the biggest mistakes as well as I'd like to say is like, make it part of a routine, have it in your calendar, have a set time where you're always speaking to customers, to keep and make sure that you have your posts to the ground like I've been guilty of this in the past and previous startups were early days I really just constantly speaking to customers and then figured that I knew everything and then later realize that I didn't. You need to have that pulse. You need to be speaking you to going back constantly and not only speaking to train customers but to customers that have returned that are Happy that are satisfied so you can find out what's working for them and make them work for others.

Yahav Hartman  
You can also you can also make it as a profit center in terms of like, it's not just many organization can look at it like, okay, we're just like learning from the customer and, but you can also look at it like okay, we, we now discover some customer like actually has tremendous results and everything is amazing. So let's like make a case study, let's make a success story let's upset, like let's help them with additional professional services. And there's so many let's get a review. The customer is happy, like asked him to review on one of the platforms because reviews are important today. And it can be just such it can be such a large profit center to the company, that people people are not looking at it this way, but it's a profit center and you need a full time person just talking to customers. Even if you're no touch and no zero touch product like magics For example, we still need someone just on this It's, it's, I can't stress more how important this is.

Andrew Michael  
I love that point of view as well sort of seeing it as a profit center and not just like a cost to the company or that the profit also is not only in sort of like the reviews and stuff, but the feedback, the input that comes to the product. And those changes sometimes can be exponential, but more often than not, it's not seen as a profit center. But I really like their point of view, like seeing it as as a profit center for the company in a way to maximize it. But I think to be that way, like you say you would need to be organized you need to have a good system down lockdown to make sure that like when you speak to the customer, if you figure they're super happy, then you know you're going for case study or for review and very good points. I love it. So finally I have like we're running up on time is anything that you'd like to leave the audience with? Can they keep up to date with your work? Anything you want to share before we close off for today?

Yahav Hartman  
Yeah, everyone can add me on like social platform Facebook, Instagram, just like yeah Hartman LinkedIn. Yeah, and anyone that especially interested like in advertising, we grow. We're SAS company, like all the listeners and we grow our business only through Facebook advertising, it's like 90% of our growth just comes to from Facebook. So if anyone like needs tips or helps or stuff, I'm always happy to chat with founders and just help like, yeah, other companies to, to achieve what we've done. And we've done it again through magics. Like so it's we actually have a lot of like people using SAS companies that are, and I would love to have people join us and on the vision of becoming the first day autonomous ad buying machine because we believe that all of these spaces we talked about today can be completely done by machines and to to let humans do what what they're better at, which is creative and bizdev. And product and but not doing the ad bank itself, which is such an important thing, which Yeah, exactly, which is such an important component for SAS businesses. If we didn't have amazing advertising systems. We wouldn't be in a place where we are now. Amazing advertising. When you have amazing advertising systems, you can afford to be with floor ltvs you have more time to learn to get more customers, you get more feedback. It's such an important growth component for companies. So yeah, that's that's it. That's something I want the audience kind of to take with them and think about it.

Andrew Michael  
Awesome. Well, yeah, it's been a pleasure having you today. And thank you very, very much for joining the show. And I wish you best of luck now going forward into the future. And with the release now of Google ads, is the platform becoming omni channel.

Yahav Hartman 
Thanks for having me.

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