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[00:01:23] Andrew Michael: Hey Diana, welcome to this.

Hey, Andrew, how are you? I'm good. It's good to have you Dinah for the listeners. Dinah is the customer success managers, strategists at catalyst, a customer success platform built to help move customer success to the center of your business.

She is also the co-creator of the open book of customer success and founder of the customer success project on a mission to help others land a job in CS and build their personal. Prior to catalyst dinosaur does a customer experience lead at Hotjar. We worked together for almost three years. So my first question for you, Dan, is what's the first thing you recommend to any newbie wanting to break into customer success.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:01] Diana De Jesus: Ooh. Okay. So we're starting with strong questions. I would say, uh, that the first thing is to learn about what customer success is. And this is a tricky one because customer success is so different depending on the industry, depending on, um, the size of customer success. As far as like, are we talking an enterprise CSM?

Are we talking about a digital CSM? So there's a lot out there. Obviously, it's starting out with some podcasts and resources, some blogs, and even joining communities like gain, grow, retain to really understand if you know, this is the right role for you. What does the role entail? And from there, um, as you're learning, you can get the bit of information that you need to also do well on the interview.

[00:02:50] Andrew Michael: Yeah, I think obviously, like it's a great place to get started because like you said, customer success is really, it varies greatly depending on who you ask and what the definition is. And I think a lot of, uh, [00:03:00] people in customer success will agree. This is probably one of the biggest problems within being customer success is that there's just so many different definitions and no one really has a clear understanding.

So when it comes to hiring and expectations and goals and things like that, it can really be very drastic, different company. 

[00:03:15] Diana De Jesus: I 100% agree. I remember I was chatting with someone who was looking for a mentor for their customer success, um, a manager on their team. And so I was like, yeah, I mean, I can talk to you to see what's going on here.

And then as I was listening, more and more. To the role itself. I was like, oh, this is a customer support role. Not necessarily customer success. And then they were like, well, yeah, you know, customer success is support. And then client success is actually customer success. So again, it's. It is so different depending on you know, where you are, what industry, what company and all, 

[00:03:56] Andrew Michael: and then you can go to another completely different coming in.

They'll say it's everybody's job to make the [00:04:00] customer successful. So customer success is ruin jobs. Um, so you have a new role now as well. Uh, at catalyst customer success, managers, strategists, like what does that entail? What are you currently doing? 

[00:04:13] Diana De Jesus: Yeah. So this role, uh, I started around December, um, kind of like a slow launch into the role.

And really what we realized was that there was a need in our industry to have someone that. What's the voice for customer success managers. So a customer success managers, strategists to us here at catalyst is someone that is helping CSMs level up. Uh, we are sharing the resources that they need, like, you know, uh, I don't think I'm the only CSM that's ever questioned, like is my QBR.

Good. Um, am I hitting the right points here? Am I actually doing the things that helped me become a trusted advisor? How do I become more strategic? How do I Polish my discovery skills? So there are a lot of things that D CSMs I, the ICS [00:05:00] directly need to just level themselves up in their job, but also, um, to our peers in the rest of the tech industry, customer success is sometimes.

What are we, it's a mystery. Like, what do we actually do? What, how does this, well, how does this department impact the ultimate, I guess, um, the revenue of, of the company. And sometimes that's hard to understand what that impact directly is from the customer success team. So even teaching our peers in tech, what is customer success and why it should be, um, you know, held at a higher, uh, value is something that I'm trying to do in this.

[00:05:37] Andrew Michael: Very cool. What was that sort of the inflection point of the pain that you really felt like? When did you sort of realize that this is something we really needed? 

[00:05:46] Diana De Jesus: So, this is something that, uh, Edward, our CEO and said are now VP of customer success at catalyst. They, they were kind of talking through some of the needs that, that they were realizing, um, in the space.

And they were like, who could do this? Like, who could [00:06:00] maybe create this content? And then they were like, oh, you know what? We have someone that's quite loud on our team and it's always, uh, producing content. Um, and so they approached me with that and I was. Yeah, I'd be crazy not to do this because it really does blend two of the things that I love customer success and also the content piece.

And. 

[00:06:20] Andrew Michael: Yeah, I think I'm from luck myself. Obviously seeing after you left tacho you've done an amazing job. And, uh, that was like the first question. Really? I was like, what does it take to break into customer success? Seeing at the customer success project and the content you put out. We had a chat a couple of weeks ago talking about the things you're doing on Tik TOK as well.

And, uh, maybe talk to us a little bit about that. Like, what was the motivation of diving into tick-tock what some of the content you're putting out there and what are the results you see? Cause I even. Posts on LinkedIn. I was looking today when I was just putting together your bio and people like shouting out and say, thanks, Diana.

I managed to get a job in a row in customer success. And, uh, yeah. So tell us a little bit about that. 

[00:06:56] Diana De Jesus: Uh, sick attack was like, like a, like a happy [00:07:00] accident. I would say. Um, so it all started with my friend. Uh, we used to work at a law firm together. We were both paralegal.

So she was like, oh my God, you would totally do so well on tech talk. Why don't you? And I was like, I don't know. It's kind of like such a young application. Like, I don't think there's a space for me there, but, um, At the time I had recently also launched this ebook and the ebook for me was something that I wanted to try because I wanted to see how it was like to build something from scratch.

Like, here's my idea. How do I market it? How do I promote it? How do I, uh, drive value? Is this thing valuable? Um, it's, it's something that I've been very interested in just like starting something from scratch. And so after maybe a week or two, the ebook was dead. Like people, the people that were going to buy it had bought it.

You know, I had a subscriber list of like 300 people and like maybe, I don't know, 20 of those people bought. And I was like, well, [00:08:00] crap, It was not, this is that pretty much. Um, and so I started the tick talk and my mission was I do want to help people, land customer success, jobs. In fact, all of the resources that I've created, like keep the customer, uh, the customer success project.

It's all been with that in mind. Like how do I kind of democratize customer success as a field and help people take the first step? And so. Um, I started creating tick talks and it sucked like, eh, I was getting no views. It was, it was pretty defeating. And I was like, I don't think this is going to work.

But then a couple of weeks in it started to pick up and people would ask questions that were curious about customer success. Um, people also started buying the ebook and I was like, holy crap. Like this is actually a source of, um, yeah, new new customers really. And the, the amount of. Support and questions and requests that I got prompted me to also do like this one-on-one coaching with people that really wanted to take it seriously and [00:09:00] break into a customer success role.

Um, so that's how the whole tick tock situation started from. 

[00:09:06] Andrew Michael: It was very cool. And obviously it's not as like wanting to learn something into and getting started and then sort of realize, okay, this can be a great channel, uh, for growth, but also, uh, learning at the same time. And yeah, I think like I find it fascinating sort of.

The market in the space as well with tick-tock. Cause like you said, it's not an audience that you it's a place that you don't think your audience is, but you'd like now how much it's taken over. And, uh, the growth that had seen pretty much everybody is on it. Uh, so I feel I need to get onto tick-tock a bit more as Alma self to learn more when you're ready.

[00:09:40] Diana De Jesus: Let me know. 

[00:09:41] Andrew Michael: Can you educate? Uh, yeah. And like the point is, well, I think like you mentioned after like a couple of weeks and things are sucked and nothing was happening, I think. For me on the podcast was even like a year of the show and the show was still doing shit numbers. And I was like, why am I doing this to myself?

Like every single week, like just doing a facade we can [00:10:00] wreak out. And then it was unreal after like the first year of like doing the grind day in and out that really, really start picking up. Obviously now, like, uh, it's one of the top podcasts in the space and, uh, we'd have like really, really great numbers.

Um, but like, which was so easy just to give up in the star, like, I could have been like any moments and just like, screw this. Like, what am I doing it for? If you have a purpose, like it's really, really. 

[00:10:23] Diana De Jesus: Yeah, I, I, 100% agree. I think like starting out is really the thing that makes or breaks you because it's always going to suck when you start out.

Even like creating content on LinkedIn about things that I was publishing on my blog about customer success. The first thing I thought. Well, who the hell am I to talk about this? Right. And why does anybody care about this? Um, so working past that, the, the whole, like, why would I be qualified to say this?

And also this is sucking right now. Like, no, one's even, no one cares about this. That, that combination there it's, it's hard to get past, but once you do it's, uh, [00:11:00] hopefully works out. 

[00:11:01] Andrew Michael: It's so hard to especially. Typically like creators in their own minds. They're also very like the most self-critical people as well.

So I think it's such a hard battle. Like you're putting stuff out there and it's like, this really sucks. It's really satisfied. It only works and only gets better if you put it off, then like it says constant better. I think, between like wanting to do something and then not wanting to suck at the same time, the balance.

Uh, we previously as well, we were at hot shot together and actually mentioned you in a previous episode, we discussed this when it came to the concept of support driven growth, where, uh, we had a chat about this. We thought it'd be good as well to talk about it today. And in your experience, when it comes to sort of retention, typically like in an organization, most companies would say, okay, customer success is responsible for retention and they give them the metrics stone, but ultimately like.

It's such a nuanced problem influenced by so many different inputs and obviously support being one of those and your experience there. So we'd asked maybe if you could just say, like, give us a [00:12:00] intro to your thoughts behind, uh, like support driven growth and, uh, the role when it comes to customer support and retention, and we'll see where it takes us from.

[00:12:09] Diana De Jesus: Yeah. So support driven growth was something that, um, that I learned about through this other company called help scout. And they had wrote this amazing blog on this new concept. They were trying out, um, they didn't have a customer success team. It was like their support team was going to do. Success and little bit of sales and a little bit of support altogether.

And I thought, well, that's crazy, first of all, but, um, what else, what else did we have? So, um, I thought. About Hotjar and what we were trying to do and how quickly it grew. And sometimes, you know, for example, back then, but we were there, we had the $29, um, uh, subscription or, or plan. And so how do you support a customer that's paying [00:13:00] $29 a month?

You can't do it through one-on-one customer success. You're not going to do high touch. In fact, even, even a low touch would be too much of a, um, Kind of overhead for you to maintain that. And so at the time, support driven felt like one of those things that customer success is always trying to be, which is it's a mindset for the entire company, not just a department.

And so what we thought it would in my team was I was focusing on onboarding. So. I was leading that team and it was about three additional folks that were working with me on that team. And so we decided to outline like, what are the values that a customer should experience for them to, for us to reduce time to value.

And so whenever a customer wrote in to. Um, through support, we looked at their account. We saw whether or not they had turned certain features on, or they had achieved a specific milestone. And then on top of providing support, we were like, Hey, by the way, you know [00:14:00] that if you did X, Y, Z, you would actually get X result.

And that thing for us was our way of doing like this support. Oh, sorry. The success within the support role. And I think for us that, that kind of opened our eyes to realize that. Wow. We really have this gap here where we should be driving value and there's nothing within our current customer experience or our customer journey.

That's filling this gap. And so that's what support driven was all about. I felt like, you know, on the pro side, I think we did a really good job, but on the, on the con side, we didn't really measure a lot of. The data, because we just didn't have that, um, kind of like that level of data that we needed to, to really make the case for it.

But ultimately for us, it was that kind of customer success mindset being executed on the customer support. 

[00:14:53] Andrew Michael: Yeah. And I think at that time it made quite a lot of sense for our church as well, because we, I think our customer success team, [00:15:00] uh, was really limited. Like the customer support team was very large.

Uh, and the thing I loved about it the most as well, though, was it's like typically email, like you have been a blindness when it comes to the email, like nobody reads like the generic emails that go out and like trying to activate you on different features and, uh, upsell and so forth. But. You have someone's attention when they're reaching out to you and they asking for the support.

So like, that's like the perfect moment that typically goes to waste in most businesses. And going back to, you mentioned, like you had a few different, um, actions that wanting to prioritize, like how did you go about sort of defining the first program of like getting this set up? Okay. Which obviously supports itself is already like swamped.

And we try to just. Be above board and, uh, solving support tickets. Like how did you go about sort of prioritizing what actions to try and test first, and then how did you weave that into the whole mix and flow of everything? 

[00:15:57] Diana De Jesus: Yeah. So in all, honestly, the first [00:16:00] things that we were recommending were, um, we were kind of just shooting in the dark.

We were like, if someone doesn't have heat maps and recordings on the. We have to push them to do one of, one of those two things. Um, then from there we were like, well, they have heat maps and recordings, maybe funnels is the next thing. So let's push them to do funnels. And so what we were doing was taking some of the customer stories that already existed.

Some of the points, there are some of the wins that other customers had and injecting that into. So it would sound something like, Hey, by the way, while I was checking out your heatmap, I noticed that you didn't have recordings for now. It turns out when you turn on your recordings, you can get a better sense of blah, blah, blah, blah.

So you were like telling them in a, in a very, like, I care for you sort of way that if you did this thing, you would also get value, additional value. Yeah. I 

[00:16:50] Andrew Michael: get that. And then weaving in like sort of customer success stories. You mentioned some, I'm assuming you were mentioning some plays that others have tried and seeing what they're into successful with.[00:17:00] 

How do you see sort of that motion now, like where you're at catalysts, where it's a different ballgame, I guess the $29 plan doesn't exist. And, uh, there is the opportunity to do, uh, because I think typically as well, this is something that may be in a low touch model in something like hydro, where there's no touch, digital touch would be handled just through email and so forth.

Do you see this, something that works across all different types of businesses and segments that these companies serve, or just specific touch case where it's really successful? Companies similar to nurture. 

[00:17:33] Diana De Jesus: I think it's important for, uh, for customer facing teams to understand what are those value drivers and be able to identify if a customer is missing the mark on hitting those value drivers.

However, I think that in a very high touch model, Similar to, um, a psychotic catalyst and the way we like to do customer success, it is difficult for someone in support to be like, by the way, you know, [00:18:00] turn this, you know? And so at the, at that point, when you have that very high touch approach and customer success, it does make sense to have the customer success manager lead that because they're the ones that have.

The customer stories behind it. They're the ones that, um, know how to strategically implement those things. And so what I think can happen there is actually customer support flagging, Hey, by the way, it looks like this customer doesn't really understand this specific tool. And I think that's the way that customer support can do more of like that support driven, um, approach to, to just customer success.

Really. 

[00:18:42] Andrew Michael: Yeah, this is something we chatted about with Ziff pellet, uh, previously on the show as well and how they structure their team as well at AppsFlyer is when it comes to compensation. And part of the compensation really was around like how many, like features or new, uh, avenues can you get our customers to [00:19:00] adopt as well?

So, um, like the customer success managers, if I remember correctly were like, that was their main goal. It wasn't really about like upsell and expansion and driving revenue. They knew that was sort of like the end outcomes. If I know I can get customers to, um, started using X, Y, Z feature, the natural outcome of that will be more revenue for the business, but really focus on, okay.

Taking a look at accounts, seeing what we can do to drive the usage within the product. And again, Features and things aren't going to make the most successful. But, um, like I said, it's very similar, like depending on the stage of the growth size of company, what you can and can support when it comes to your customer success managers, uh, versus, um, and now catalysts, like how do you structure your support and success teams?

Like, is there any overlap between the two, um, where do you see them working well together? And where do you see like there's opportunities for improvement? 

[00:19:54] Diana De Jesus: So the customer success department has everything within it. Like customer [00:20:00] support, customer success, implementation, and I think, um, and also customer operations, they all sit within customer success.

Um, And the way that they work together is I'll give you an example. Like if we have a customer that has reached out several times to support, then our support team would, would flag it with us, a customer success manager on the account and say like, Hey, by the way, such and such has reached out to us several times about X topic, um, or such and such had a very bad experience recently with this thing.

And so there is this constant communication. Here's what's happening in support with this customer. And I want to just let you know that this is happening. So when you get to let's say your next monthly call or your quarterly business review, you're aware that this is a thing, but through our tool. So shameless plug, catalyst does have an integration with Zendesk. So that means that whenever there is a ticket that gets created in Zendesk, we see that in [00:21:00] catalyst, we have it within a dashboard. So we're aware of conversations that are happening on the support side.

So, you know, before we jump into a monthly call, we could just look at that and quickly say like, oh crap, they have, uh, uh, you know, open ticket about this integration. And I know they mentioned that on the last call. So let me just check it out real quick. 

[00:21:19] Andrew Michael: Cool. So I think you're lucky in that sense that you have the platform to be able to add and work through together.

But, um, it's, it's interesting that they will fall under the same brand and umbrella customer success as well. These teams, uh, like we had this, we started the discussion that it's phrased in so many different ways. It has so many different meanings, I think. Uh, you've just added a new one to the show as well today from the definitions.

Um, Yeah. So let me ask you a question that I ask every guest that joins the show. Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario now that you join a new company, general attention is not degraded at this company. And, um, the CEO [00:22:00] comes to you and says, Hey, Donna, we really need to turn things around. We have 90 days to do it.

You're in charge. What do you do? The catch. You're not going to tell me I'm going to go speak to customers, identify the biggest pain points and start there. You're just going to pick something that you've seen be really, really successful at reducing churn fast and run with that playbook. Blindly, hoping that it works.

[00:22:23] Diana De Jesus: Okay. So if I can't speak to customers, I would hope that I would still have some sort of data point to go back to. So for me, it's imagine you 

[00:22:33] Andrew Michael: don't have data as well. Like that's, again, it's a, cop-out it's a cheat. 

[00:22:36] Diana De Jesus: Oh, okay. So no data, I'm just going into this blindly 

[00:22:42] Andrew Michael: and something you've seen be effective in helping reduce churn.

[00:22:45] Diana De Jesus: Okay.

If we're talking about a high touch, so a customer led growth sort of tool, then I'm starting with my team. I'm starting with. Let's use our customer [00:23:00] success team or onboarding team to have those conversations where we're understanding what's really going on, like driving discovery questions and then highlighting some customer stories.

That again, we had success in because. The more I work with customers, the more I realize, like they don't care about what I have to say. They want to know what other customers have done to help them be successful. And so for me, the approach would be, let me lead with discovery. Um, conversations through my customer success team, understand what are the core issues behind why we're experiencing churn and then figure out what sort of customer wins have happened so that we can get these customers hyped around, you know, the success that other customers have had, but also let them know, like, there's hope down the road.

We can implement this solution just as this customer. 

[00:23:54] Andrew Michael: So you'll go to, then we'd really be leaning back on success, stories of previous customers [00:24:00] and through the onboarding, then like making sure people are aware of, uh, how they can be successful using the same software as an X, Y stent. Yeah. 

[00:24:09] Diana De Jesus: I would lean on my humans.

I would lean on humans here and not necessarily like any tools to do this. I think there is a lot of value in having very direct question or direct conversations that are loaded with discovery questions, to understand what is the core issue at hand so we can address it. 

[00:24:28] Andrew Michael: Cool. What's one thing that you noted about your attention that you wish you knew when you got started with your career.

[00:24:37] Diana De Jesus: Oh, this is a good one.

I think, similar to something that we've talked about, like thinking back to the churn group at, uh, Hotjar I think, I think we were naive to think that just a handful of people could solve this. Um, and that really, it does take the [00:25:00] entire company. To move forward and reduce turn. It's not like a one rep from each team sort of thing.

It's like the entire company is on the same mission to do this. And the one thing that I'm really seeing, um, is just critical when it comes to reducing churn. Excuse me, is the alignment with the different leaders from different. Right. We need marketing to actually sell, like to, to advertise the right things.

Sales needs to actually close on the right things and bring in good fit customers. And then implementation has a very difficult job because they are the ones that need to develop drive value really quickly. Yeah. We've all realized that if onboarding sucks, then, I mean your chances of saving this, customer's like pretty much shit.

And then you have customer success that needs to keep this thing going. It needs to like. Like, um, there's this [00:26:00] guy named Rob Dolly wall. I really like what he wrote in a, in a medium post it's like, it's the art of sell and sell again, like customer success is not done with sales. You need to sell and sell again.

And then you have product and engineering that have to support. You know, and, and keep up with the expectations of the customer, um, and continue scaling the way that the customers expect, especially if you're working at a startup. So I think that every team contributes to that. And so for us to blindly think that just because you have a customer success department, like we're good, we don't have to worry about churn.

And they're the ones that are going to carry net revenue retention as this. It was silly for me to think that Andrew 

[00:26:42] Andrew Michael: I, a hundred percent agree with you on this. And I think like for me, from the podcast, it's it's top three lessons learned, I think when it comes to general retention at outset, it's the most important alignment with Stephanie and the top three.

And I don't think that. Talked about the specific on the podcast. I always mentioned that to every guest to join us before, but what [00:27:00] Diana was alluding to was that hot shot. At some point, uh, we were tasked to put together a churn team. I think we even gave ourselves a name like churn busters or something.

I can't remember the name list. There was a few different stupid names. Uh, and the whole premise was just trying to get a person from each team. As a representative within the organization, within the company. So we had someone from engineering or maybe had a couple of engineers. We had from support. We had from success sale.

We didn't really have sales at the time, but in marketing. And the goal was really for us as a team to sit together and to see like what we could do to reduce general attention. And I always say this in retrospect, it's a terrible idea. So if any of you out there listening, thinking together, putting together a team to solve this.

It's a company problem, not a team problem. 

[00:27:43] Diana De Jesus: Yeah. And I think at the time we were just, we were just trying to figure out, like, what can we do? Like what can we quickly do? So it was a, I would say it was a good, um, lesson learned for the entire company. It wasn't like. Anyone's direct fall. It was us just like, Hey, what can we [00:28:00] do to really action out?

And yeah, it was a learning moment for all of us. Yeah. 

[00:28:04] Andrew Michael: The question that I typically ask at the end is that what would you do in 90 days? It's a difficult question because there's not much you can do in 90 days. Like now churn and retention takes a long time to move and it's like the biggest. The needle that moves is when everybody's aligned.

Like when everybody really understands the problem, they understand like which area of focus we're going after. And then everybody can set their targets to improve that that's like when you see a step change, but if everybody just trying to move like incremental changes independently and moving thing, like you don't see, uh, you don't see the numbers move.

[00:28:36] Diana De Jesus: I mean, there to your point. Um, and I don't know if we mentioned this on this podcast, but like you, you need to, um, Yeah, so churn is the outcome, right? And there's everything that's feeding into this machine. Um, and so by the time you have raw, you have, uh, identified that there is [00:29:00] potential risk for churn.

Um, you, you didn't do any of the leading indicators. Like you ignored all of the leading indicators here to get to that point. So I think, you know, for. At catalyst, we're super lucky because our tool is literally designed to help us identify these potential churn risks. So we're very sensitive when it comes to potential turn risks.

Like let's say if I'm working with a customer success leader and they, they leave the company, I'm like, okay, That's a turn risk. Why? Because I have no idea who is going to be the next person that steps in. And I have to work with this person. Maybe they've worked with another tool and they're like, Nope.

As soon as I get in there, I'm cutting this out. And so I think treating or flagging risk early on is kind of like, that's what we can avoid or that's what we could do to avoid getting to that situation. 

[00:29:52] Andrew Michael: Yeah, for sure. And like you said, there's so many different because I think that's the biggest problem as well with trying to retention is like more often than not people tend [00:30:00] to focus on like, how can we stop those from turning who about to churn when it's like 90% of time it's too late.

Like if somebody is almost got to that point where they've decided like I'm going to pull my credit card out, the damage has already been done. They haven't done what they need to be, do to be successful. So the efforts are really just better spent focusing your energy. Activating new customers onboarding them correctly, making sure you're getting them to value and, uh, like delivering on the promise that marketing and sales and everybody's selling before you.

So, yeah. 

[00:30:29] Diana De Jesus: Yeah. I agree. Uh, one thing that we, we see with like a larger, um, as it, now that I'm doing more of like high touch work, it's the. This constant struggle of bandwidth. Some of these teams, they just like don't have the bandwidth to do certain things. So one area that I see coming up a lot with.

Ourselves and even, um, our customers, as well as this need for professional services or like solutions architect. Like these two roles are just constantly popping up because we realize [00:31:00] like sometimes what our customers need is just resources and time. So that's also one. While it feels like to your point, like they're gonna pull this credit card, uh, out of there, you know, payment stuff.

Um, it's really like, damn, they really, we really just need to listen and understand like why, why would you leave right now? And sometimes it comes down to their own Bab bandwidth. So it's one of those where it's like, you could, you could possibly have a success story here. If, if you know, if that's the.

And if 

[00:31:29] Andrew Michael: you have the bandwidth, uh, to be speaking to 

[00:31:33] Diana De Jesus: correct the bandwidth, and then they also need to have the money, which, you know, they don't have the bandwidth, like, do we have the money for this? And yeah, it's a, it's a rabbit hole, 

[00:31:41] Andrew Michael: Misha Misha. So, uh, in closing as well today, let's see, we're running up on time.

Like, how can the listeners keep up to speed with the work? And obviously we started out with like, what is the one thing that you'd recommend to someone wanting to break in tech? Maybe what would be some of your closing thoughts as well then on, [00:32:00] if somebody is looking to really break into customer success, wanting to get a role in tech, uh, what should they be doing?

And then, um, how can they keep up to speed with your work and keep in contact? 

[00:32:10] Diana De Jesus: Yeah. So honestly, you and, um, Louie were the people that inspired me to start that blog called keep the customer. And it was, you know, I think at the time when I had spoken to you guys, I was like, look, I'm really trying to break into this other area, but it, it seems to be impossible because of the experience, but, and so.

That conversation, um, that you guys had with me, led me to create that resource that ultimately gave me the information that then allowed me to come across as a person that was knowledgeable and passionate about customer success. So for anyone that is trying to break into tech, consider creating content, um, you know, we.

Or we live now in a very digital era where we can produce on whatever platform we [00:33:00] want to. Um, and all of those things tell the story of our passion and, um, our desire to work in a specific field. So if you're like, how can I start now start documenting? Like, there's this one girl, I follow up on tech talk and she.

I think she has like 365 days to become a software engineer. And I love her content because she's literally documenting every single day what she's doing to get to that stage. And if I was a hiring manager or whatever, I'd be like, yes, that's the person I want. Cause they're showing that they're doing this.

That is, that is my additional tip, um, on, on breaking into tag or breaking into customer success. And then when it comes to where you can find me, I'm very active on LinkedIn still. So, um, I'm really slow to reply to people on inbox, but, but I do reply at some point and I still create content on there. I have that website, the customer success, project.com.

Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm always open to chat [00:34:00] with people who are looking to break into. 

[00:34:02] Andrew Michael: Very cool. And obviously on Tik TOK now as well. Uh, definitely check out the contender if you look on the devices, but you actually like it, it's funny that you said that like, just start creating constant cause a hundred percent like echo with you.

Like, I don't know how many people, both of us have hired over the years, but definitely like, those are the things that stand out the ones that are really like, just trying to do things, even though there's no experience there, like putting an effort in and trying to make an, the stories where you see somebody actually like literally documenting the process of how to get a job in a specific role.

You can see somebody who's hungry and you know, like that's the person you want higher because they're putting their foot, they're putting the hours to get there. Uh, very cool to hear. Well, then it's been a pleasure chatting to you today, uh, as always. And, um, thank you so much for joining, uh, for the listeners.

Like all the resources that we recommended today will definitely be in the show notes. You can check those out, encourage you to follow Diana and the different metrics yet. And yeah, just thanks so much and wish you best of luck moving forward. 

[00:34:57] Diana De Jesus: Thanks Andrew. 

[00:34:58] Andrew Michael: [00:35:00] And that's a wrap for the show today with me, Andrew, Michael, I really hope you enjoyed it. And you're able to pull out something valuable for your business to keep up to date with churn.fm and be notified about new episodes. Blog posts and more subscribe to our mailing list by visiting churn.fm. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our show on iTunes, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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