Andrew Michael: [00:00:00] hey, there. Welcome to the show.

Ziv Peled: [00:00:02] Thanks for having me again.

Andrew Michael: [00:00:04] It's a pleasure, uh, for the listeners, uh, Ziv is no stranger to the show. And previously joined us on episode 50 and is with us today on a hundredth episode milestone after hitting a few of his own recently too.

He's the chief customer officer at AppsFlyer the global leader in mobile attribution and marketing analytics. And Ziv has been at AppsFlyer over seven years now and started out as a senior customer success manager and has grown up the ranks to now leading the entire customer team. In this time is experienced some explosive growth and more recently AppsFlyer as past 1000 employees, 200 million in ARR received a 2 billion valuation with Salesforce ventures joining the last round.

And yet Ziv is pushing the missions that they're 1% done. So my first question for you is Ziv is what does the next 99% look like?

Ziv Peled: [00:00:53] Yeah. So I think that, uh, the concept of the 1% done is that you do, you never think about the 99%? He said like, [00:01:00] you always focused about the 1%, but, uh, definitely. I can tell you that in the last two years, I, uh, think about more about strategy.

And Y uh, uh, maybe, maybe it's, uh, it's the time that we are starting to look at the 99% and, uh, while I'm now planning, uh, 20, 21 and, uh, you know, very tactical planning, uh, we are looking, uh, for the first time, uh, uh, since I started to do customer success. Uh, we are looking at, uh, what do we need for the end of 2023?

And I'll do we now build it backwards. And I think it's a it's, um, you know, I'm super excited about that and, uh,

Andrew Michael: [00:01:43] Yeah. So I gave you a bit more time to strategize and think forward, but I love the concept, all of like the 1% on, because I think if you're outside of technology and outside of business in general, like I think a lot of people struggle to understand what you actually do and why you would need such a big [00:02:00] team.

And, uh, like when is the product done. And it's one of those things that it's, it's a living organism. I think we talked about on the show before, like product market fit is a moving target. You're always moving to try and get closer to it. You're always improving the product and service that you provide your company and your customers.

Um, so like I think the 1% done sort of really highlights that point quite well in the sense that you're never done. It's just always a constant battle. You always going to be improving and getting better. Um, So I'm interested as well. Like I mentioned in the intro that you've been over seven years now at AppsFlyer, you've grown up the ranks.

Like you must have seen a lot of change in this time as well. So I wanted to just start off maybe just by getting your perspective. And what's one thing that. That you has been the biggest change in retention from like the time you started to today. So, uh, when you first joined, you might've been doing certain activities, you were focused on retention in [00:03:00] one frame.

And how are you seeing it today? Like what has changed? What's been the biggest change.

Ziv Peled: [00:03:05] I think that the, the, the massive changes that, um, in, uh, 2013, 2014, we could have, uh, provide, uh, VIP service to everyone. And I can even say extreme. Service. And now even if we want, we cannot serve as the same. So, so, uh, the smaller accounts that are, uh, not less important because some of those companies will grow.

So to be a huge, uh, we cannot serve those small accounts as we did in 2013, 2014. So I think that that's the biggest change. And it's also something that I'm. You know, we're trying to see how we can improve that in the product and the set of serve, uh, in, uh, during COVID, uh, in the beginning, we, uh, released a free plan of our service that, uh, provides a three, the [00:04:00] first 12,000 conversions for free and including a suite of lots of engagement products that are free for life.

Uh, for our customers. And it's part of the, of that process of how can we tweak everyone out? Can we bring that product to everyone? And also the experience. I think that we want to provide the better experience for these smaller

customers.

Andrew Michael: [00:04:24] That's interesting. Like, I think they've never see, like you said, as you scaled, almost becomes impossible to provide their treatment to an it service level service, uh, that you maybe did in the early days, but you're sort of like counteracting that by providing a much better freemium offering a much better sort of like.

Tools and services, uh, that, uh, like maybe one would say, okay, I'm done get the same service. Maybe we used to just because it's natural and I'm getting, but now I'm getting a free product, powerful product. And, uh, I could, cause I was going to be one of my questions was like, okay, have you seen a difference in gender and retention as a result of [00:05:00] having to reduce the amount of support and assistance that you give your customers.

But it sounds like you're counteracting that with really more automated tools and services that. Could essentially even be potentially more powerful for them, like saving money on a bill when you're getting started. So also the next thing I think from that is like, what's one thing that's stayed the same then for you.

So, um, when you first started like focused on retention, what's the what's not different today. What are you still doing that applied then and applies now?

Ziv Peled: [00:05:34] I think one of the things that the we never changed for us is that we always strive to provide wow moments. We, we, we look for, what can we do that can be acception on, or, uh, Derek BNB, both customers, the founder, as they say, well, what will be a six star, uh, experience or a seven service star, uh, uh, experience.

I think that this is something that [00:06:00] we are always looking for. Uh, and I think that that framework is great because in the end, you know, even if, if you grow and then you have lots of CSMs and lots of support engineers, I think that if everyone thinks about those wild moments, if any, if they provide a wow one while a moment or a few while moments every day, Then, uh, still the, the outside we'll get lots of walnuts and again, not all the customers, uh, but I think it's a great concept.

Um, and, and, and I think it, in the end it builds a culture. It builds, uh, it builds a perception of Appsflyer. I think that, uh, you know, we, we don't provide this support to everyone because you can't. But the PR in general, in general, we provide a very good support, a very good service. Eh, we're very engaged.

Uh, our response time is phenomenal. So in the [00:07:00] end, the perception. Is really important, especially for a company that grows to be a now, I don't know. I don't want to say large, but maybe large company.

Andrew Michael: [00:07:12] Yeah. You're getting to the large category for sure. Um, Alex, I love that sort of concept of the wild moments we headed at Hotjar as well, uh, previously, or they still do have it at Hotjar and it's actually like the late Tony Shay.

Uh, from Zappos, I think is one of these things. And like you said, like, it really becomes a part of your culture when you're trying to wow. Your customers. I think there's one of the stories I read recently, uh, was he, Tony was with some friends and they want to order a pizza. And he challenged them to call the support center at Zappos, which is a shoe company.

Um, and actually the call center respondent, uh, like said, hold on one minute, uh, came back with Tim and, uh, to the guy who called in and said, here are five options that are open, still close by to, uh, to get your pizza. And they were sort of [00:08:00] blown away by this, but that the idea was like, really just. Trying to create these wild moments, no matter what, and in any circumstance.

And like you said, like over time, this comes to be, what you'll be known for becomes part of your culture becomes part of who you are. And I think having that as a central focus in your DNAs is really, really powerful for the brand and for the company.

Ziv Peled: [00:08:20] ,

for sure. And I must say, uh, you know, AppsFlyer and, uh, you know, my CEO.

Uh, we, we, we are, uh, very influenced by, uh, Tony Shay's vision. Uh, we, uh, buildings and the UPSer, maybe the main thing, an AppsFlyers culture, it started from that vision.

Andrew Michael: [00:08:39] Yeah. He was such a inspirational leader, I think as well. He influenced a lot of people, our note as well, too. Um, one of my favorite books still today.

So the, the next thing I wanted to chat about then is so. You came on episode 50. We are now episode 100 today. That's almost a year. So I think [00:09:00] we have an episode every single week. Uh, so in maybe a month's time, this would have been a year since we last chatted. What has being like one of the biggest changes for you in this time?

Like, and what's one thing that you've learned that's new to you since we last spoke.

Ziv Peled: [00:09:16] Yeah. So, um, uh, in, in COVID-19, uh, we, we, we treated a chair, uh, in chin risk, uh, differently. So, uh, we continue to look at Sharon and, uh, red flag, uh, churn risk, uh, in Salesforce. Uh, we edit the new, uh, process for COVID-19 affected the customers.

And, uh, look for solutions for them. And we actually took that process in Salesforce and we copied it. Uh, and we, uh, called it the red flags for COVID-19 and we add the regional and global committees that looked at these customers and what can, how can we help them? [00:10:00] Uh, and the it some moment there, I, I, I started to think about like, it was, I think, mid April, Uh, started to think about all the focus that we have in the company measuring and eh, processing and training.

Sure. And in the end, if you think about the debt red flag process and the red flag COVID-19 process and a chaired committee that we have every month, uh, all that is focused around 10% of the revenue. And, uh, if you, if you think about, uh, if you think about that, then it made me immediately think about like, what are we doing for the, for the risks?

What are we doing for the 120% of the revenue that is being renewed mostly every year? Um, And then, uh, we developed an, a, an amazing process. They still in the works, but it's already running in the region that he's, [00:11:00] uh, out to start the process of the renewal from the six months, uh, feedback. Mark. Uh, so six months before, did we know all, we said a team leader or a director or a VP of customer success to speak with the account, to get the feedback about the product, about the service, about the support team or the customer success team about the relationship that we have with them.

And then five to four months before the renewal, we get the first renewal forecast from the CSM. By the way, both the feedback and the renewal forecast are, uh, marked at incest. First of course. And then we started the renewal strategy in terms of strategy. And we decide if that customer should go with us for a multi-year renewal or for an auto renewal or for an early renewal.

Uh, or for a, an upside or a downgrade. Uh, and I think that's, that's really, really important because what we actually learned in [00:12:00] that process that is that what we want to have four months or three months before the renewal is that it's mostly information you want to have. The entire information that you know about the camp when they started working with you, who was managing them or manage them last with the sales manager, what industry are they from?

What experience did they have with apps fire for the last year? So from looking at support tickets and JIRA at the, the relationships that we have at the engagements that we have with that account, then we can understand maybe what they feel about us. And I will, they will value that relationship and renewal.

Andrew Michael: [00:12:43] It's interesting. It almost sounds like you've flipped things completely within the organization, or at least within your organization to focus a lot more on, uh, sort of retention as, as like, as opposed to driving more value to your existing [00:13:00] customers, to help them expand and grow and achieve more then, uh, like giving too much focus to try and avoiding churn and like, People that are running in the red flag, but I think ultimately this will probably have the adverse effect as well in the sense that you would end up seeing less red flags, just because you're proactively reaching out six months ahead of time.

Uh, you getting the flags there and not waiting for them to happen closer to renewal as well. Is this something that you're seeing as well?

Ziv Peled: [00:13:29] Absolutely one of the, and again, I didn't invent it. I spoke to someone and he raised that idea. And, uh, I think the six months before the renewal is super important, because exactly like you said, you still have six months to solve it and it's not three months or two months or one month where you get, you can solve the challenge.

And, and I think that this, this, you know, instead of calling it retention, or I think what we are actually [00:14:00] building areas is predictability in the end, the company, any company in any stage, once more predictability. And I think that the company did grows massively. Like AppsFlyer we want to be more predictable.

We want to understand, uh, which customers, uh, grows. We does. Uh, which customers we need to invest more, which customers say didn't get the value that the, uh, talk they will get. Uh, and then, uh, 20% together. Why, and maybe I'll can we sort of within, if we, if we cannot solve it, then what can we do together?

Andrew Michael: [00:14:39] Yep. That's actually a similar concept came up in a previous interview recently. And one of the questions I think like we were talking about was like questions that you can ask during these six month meetings. And, uh, one of the questions, I think it was, uh, Sydney from catalyst. To I'm right on this. But, uh, she mentioned like one [00:15:00] of the questions that they would ask during one of these meetings would be like, uh, what is one thing preventing you from renewing your contract today?

Or what is one thing that might prevent you from renewing your contract today? Which I liked in one sense that you get sort of early indications or what's happening. And then I sort of, it reminded me a little bit of, uh, some research and like surveys we recommended at Hotjar, which was actually.

Post-purchase surveys. So in this context, I think would be just post renewal and asking your customers, like what's one thing that nearly stopped you from your Newing today. Like just after they renewed. Um, and I think like you get some really, really powerful insights, uh, from this concept because obviously like the is just renewed, but you can also then get back from them.

Like, what is. Areas for improvement for yourself. Like you still have this customer and you want to keep these types of customers that are sticking around and staying with you. So getting direct feedback on what nearly stopped them, uh, is really, really powerful, I think. And [00:16:00] again, sort of serving you. So your customers better.

Ziv Peled: [00:16:05] One thing I can say about that, I think the challenge about this is the same NPS challenge that, uh, B2B SAS as, um, it's it's it's about, do you ask the right person? Do you, do you have the right relationship? So that question from Cindy, if you go and ask the champion or the valuable user, then they will say, uh, nothing stops me from renewing today.

Uh, but you didn't ask the CMO or the CFO. Uh, so you might get the, just like the NPS, you go to 10, but that then means nothing. Yep. Yeah. W w why do we go in 20, 21 and further? I think companies serving B2B, SAS, uh, products. We need to improve a [00:17:00] lot. In to, to understand, are we speaking to the right people?

Do we, did we develop the right relationships? Do we ask the right questions?

Andrew Michael: [00:17:11] Absolutely. Yeah. I think like speaking to the right people is critical because like you said, I think with all these sort of surveys and questions, like you can find flaws in everything, but the most important thing is making sure that you're asking the right person, because I think even with NPS sectors, there's a whole bunch of other, uh, areas for improvement.

I think one of them is like you ask, would you recommend our product to a friend or family member thinks something like that or a colleague. Um, but at the same time, like your service might not be suitable for a friend or colleague or something. So I just. A simple rephrasing. Would you recommend this product service to someone like you?

Um, just something as small as that can also have a big difference in terms of the response that you get back from a question like that. So there's definitely a lot of floors, but I really love the point of like, making sure that you're speaking to the right person when you're getting this feedback. And you mentioned like the CMO, the CFO, um, and I'm assuming that sort of, because they're [00:18:00] the ones that, uh, hold the budgets and those are the ones that are giving the final approval.

But how do you go about making sure that you're, you're speaking to the right people within the org at AppsFlyer.

Ziv Peled: [00:18:09] Yeah, so for us, and we spoke about it in the episodes of 50 w uh, the relationship framework, uh, w w we are progressing, uh, that all the time. And, uh, while we back then, we were just starting. And if we can get at least one relationship in tier one customers, uh, now the goal now is to have at least four.

And with the complete, uh, tier one, uh, covered. And we're also looking at tier two now and so covering more and more relationships across the accounts. And I think that that's, that's super important. And if you think about all the activities that the CSM does on a daily basis, I think that there's a lot of importance, uh, in what can they do?

What is something that is, [00:19:00] eh, There ends and the R D doing it. So if I think about now, the most important things that the CSM Sinatra does is so of course the queen bee building that relationship, onboarding the customer, uh, defining the desired outcomes, marking those desired outcomes, uh, signaling the red flag, uh, signal, being an absolute indication, signaling a feature reduction, indication all of these things.

In Indiana, uh, you know, in the last, uh, few weeks I'm, I'm, I'm speaking with our ops team. And I'm thinking about creating that score of, uh, you know, many, many companies are using it to F score an ear. I think that the score that I'm thinking about is actually the score of the things that are in your hands.

I'm the CSM. And I want to know from zero to 100%, I'll much of the things that are in my hands. If I had done for my portfolio and then for [00:20:00] the team and then for the department.

Andrew Michael: [00:20:03] I like that. And what would be some of those things they would make up the school? Cause I think obviously like a lot of times we, we set bars, we're measuring ourselves against things that just not in our power.

And I think one of those things is actually churn and retention sometimes ends up getting put onto customer success or a specific team within the company. But ultimately that's just the output that is medical. So many inputs. And what are some of the inputs that your team has within their ability within their hands to improve an impact that you're going in adding into the score?

Ziv Peled: [00:20:31] So it's all of these activities that I mentioned before, and it's very easy to also measure it because again, 90, 95% of these activities are already in Salesforce for us, mostly in custom objects. And I think that, uh, that's, that's a great, it's not only a tool for measurement for the team leader and the director and the VP.

And for me, it's also a great tool for the CSM. Uh, you've said far as, [00:21:00] or, or since, uh, where they can see what is their progress. So they can see in tier one customers, I have five 21 customers and my score card need to coverage or did the things that are in my power. My score is no 85% and no one as can change it on the only I can change it.

I think it is, it's a lot more powerful than an ELA score or a churn metric that, uh, is, uh, definitely it's it's in my power, but. 10%, 15%, 20% we can debate about that. But I think that in India, uh, um, you know, things that I try to develop, the things that I try to big for our methodology and our tools, I try to build things that will, in one side, we let me measure it from a management point of view from the team leadership.

But from data side, I want it also to be valuable for the CSM. [00:22:00] Otherwise the CSM actually will not use it will not use those activities.

Andrew Michael: [00:22:05] Absolutely. Yeah, you want it to be attainable? You want it to be something that actually somebody can set a goal to hit and achieve it at the end of the day? I think, um, super important.

I think this is one of the exercises while I think when it comes to alignment and we're thinking of the context of churn and retention, like I mentioned, like there's so many different inputs, but. The smaller, you can break those inputs down, uh, and two different sort of teams and squads and really show how like the individual input that they have, how that cascades upwards, and almost creating sort of like a metrics or analytics tree, uh, is really powerful.

And I think it's a similar concept to what you're saying now is really just like, how can you break down the actions? Uh, The inputs that go into the final output, but they're actually achievable by the CSMs, uh, and by, uh, the team members. So they can actually go and say, okay, I'm going to get 85. I'm going to get 90.

I'm going to a hundred percent this quarter because it's within my power to [00:23:00] do so. And I think. The rewarding at the end of the day, having a clear target set for everybody is it can't be replaced. I think super powerful, um, Zilla. I'm going to have to do it again to you, uh, and feel free to repeat your answer, but I want to make sure we stay true to tradition on the show.

Um, let's imagine that you have a new job. Uh, tomorrow, uh, you arrived at this company general. Attention's not doing great. The CEO says Ziv you're in charge. I need you to make a dent in 90 days. I want to see an improvement. What are you going to do?

Ziv Peled: [00:23:35] Yeah, I think, uh, and probably, I will not say the same as what I said before, but, uh, we'll we can check it later.

Um, but I think I would sit with each and every one of the CSMs and I would want to see their activities. What are they doing? What input they get, what input they Mark, uh, how they work. Uh, I want to really understand the methodology and [00:24:00] tools. And then the first thing that, uh, and maybe this is, uh, also answers one of the questions you asked before, but what I've learned is here, uh, you know, my role in the end is to help people be successful in their job.

And I think that, uh, this is exactly what I want to do. I want to go and see how those CSMs work. And how can I help them improve and what tools in other new methodologies I can provide that will help them even be more successful and help them scale. And, and, you know, indeed that process, you also understand them.

If there's a, there are things that you need to do in the product. If the product is good enough, uh, it's sinful.

Andrew Michael: [00:24:50] Yeah, I love that. And I think from a leadership perspective, really like, Hey, you said your job is to make other successful, um, and finding ways for them to improve, to learn, to grow, [00:25:00] um, to set goals and targets is super important.

The one question I just have in my mind, as well as obviously like AppsFlyer has headaches, plosive growth over the last few years, in your opinion, what do you think? What is the message  what's making it all happen. If you had to summarize it like very quickly.

Ziv Peled: [00:25:19] Yeah, I think, I think it's, uh, it's an amazing, um, collaboration of love.

It's not collaboration, that's not the word I'm looking for, but I think it's, it's an amazing synergy of product market fit and an amazing culture or the people that we hired. I think that, uh, it said the majority of it, like 95% of the, um, th that, that magic.

Andrew Michael: [00:25:48] Yeah. Eh, people in product market fits. So I have a couple more questions while I wanted to backtrack now, actually.

So you mentioned like earlier this year in around April, I think it was, [00:26:00] you started looking at the numbers and you started realizing, okay. Are we spending a lot of time and resources on 10% when we should maybe be switching and focusing a little bit more on the 120%? What did that look like within your organization?

What did that conversation, uh, like happen and how did it sort of get momentum to sort of make those switches?

Ziv Peled: [00:26:23] Yeah. I, I think, uh, what what's really amazing about these is that because we have a great product because we have great product market fit, uh, in charities low then even then in COVID-19. So we of course more churn a lot, a lot, uh, around, uh, bankruptcy and the companies that decided not to do anything anymore.

Uh, but also because of the, the product is so strong and people really need it. And it's a mission critical product. So we saw things that were not optimized for. [00:27:00] Uh, and I, I speak mainly about downgrades. And then that leads off the idea or the area of thinking about the renewals of ticket, about retention and how we can optimize things.

Of course, in the end, the company, we are a company and we want it to be profitable. Uh, so we, at the end, we want to optimize downgrades and to decrease to downgrade. Uh, and then. In, in, in depth, uh, line of thinking, we, we thought about what can we do better? Uh, we have that entire focus on Sharon. And then now if we focus more on the renewal process, uh, then we can definitely get a lot, a lot more optimization, save more, more revenue.

And in the long run, I think that there's some things, uh, when, when you start doing that, you think about the short term, but then when you think about the long run, I go back to that, [00:28:00] uh, predictability word. Uh, you want it to be more predictable and then you'll see very healthy companies. It works with you and you can then sign them for a multi-year contracts.

And then I think that in the evolution of a company growing from a medium company to a large, uh, I think we definitely now, uh, we look at these things multi-year contracts and then being a really large quantity.

Andrew Michael: [00:28:26] Yeah. And you mentioned as well, something around forecasting earlier as well. That, so it's the role.

Now you focus six months out, you have a conversation with your customers. Three months later, you sort of put together a forecasting. Uh, what does that look like? Like how are your CSMs going about forecasting? Um, the revenue and the renewals for the next year. And, um, w what is this accumulate in? Like, is this something that should within the organization, do you.

Look back and measure against it to see how on point you were or how old you were.

[00:29:00] Ziv Peled: [00:29:00] Yeah, absolutely. So we, we are, uh, the feedback, uh, Process for six months before the renewal that's new. Uh, the renewal forecast is, uh, I think we are using it now for 18 or 24 months already. And we measure it, but we, it's not, uh, not holding anything against anyone, but, uh, I think we're around 85% accuracy around that.

Uh, and when did we started to use that, uh, process? Uh, we also had maybe as an answer and, uh, now for, uh, six or 12 months, we don't have the, maybe any more insight either. Yes or no. Yes. And it can be in the, yes, it can be an upside or downgrade. Um, and then I think that, uh, what we're now pushing the team is first of all, to have a full picture.

So all the enterprise customers we want to have with full focus, no enterprise customers should go on a three months before the renewal, [00:30:00] without the forecast. And I think in, in the end, it, it, um, it, you know, w w when, when I hire a CSM and I, uh, give him, uh, , uh, 30 accounts. There's a lot of, eh, responsibility here.

And I think when we ask, uh, CSMs to build that, uh, desired outcomes in Salesforce and to issue that red flag when needed then to, uh, build those relationships, significant relationships in Salesforce, and to build that forecast, uh, we speak about like in India, it's it's about that responsibility, you know, on one side, I want to add that CSM to be.

Very successful in, uh, to, uh, grow in their career. And in return, I want to get that responsiveness, that responsibility from them. I think that what makes a great customer success organization.

[00:31:00] Andrew Michael: [00:30:59] Absolutely. And I think it all comes back to what you were saying earlier is like having that predictability. Um, and I think this is the beauty about SaaS businesses in general is like, uh, they tend to be a lot more predictable and you can sort of forecast revenue, projections.

You can, um, get to the point to understand like what the company is going to look like six months a year from now, even. Um, so, uh, doing exercises like this more and more just helps. Clear up that picture and give a little bit more sense to the predictability as well, which is cool. Um, so Ziv, I mean, obviously we're running up on time now.

It's been a pleasure as always like having a chat with you today, but is there any sort of final thoughts, anything that you think the listeners should be aware of? Um, and keep up to speed with what you're working on

Ziv Peled: [00:31:48] yeah. So. Uh, a few people asked me for an advice. Uh, do you read the last 12 months? And, um, I, I think, uh, one of the [00:32:00] things that I'm now saying, or the one major thing that I'm now saying, and I'm thinking that also to people in my teams, eh, is, uh, usually I should know everything.

And know when I think about that framework of know everything, I think that any individual in individual contributor at team leader, And it is VP of customer success. When, when, when they think about that framework, they need to, they need to understand what is the know, everything for them and for now, for right now.

So if I'm in UFC CSM, individual contributor, joining ups, flair D one thing that main framework for death, no, everything is to get to know the company. Get to know the product, understand the infrastructure, understand the methodology, the tools, because I think that, you know, if you think about the CSM three months in six months in, in the company, you can never go back for that know everything of the first two months.

[00:33:00] It's that time doesn't go, that doesn't come back and it goes, and it goes on and on for anything anyone has, if I'm a team leader or I just, I was just appointed team leader to know everything for me is to know everything that I can about the team, my team members, their lives about their, uh, aspirations.

They both what they want to achieve about their strengths and weaknesses. Um, and then it goes on and on. And so I think that the, they know where everything framework, uh, is definitely one of the latest things that I'm thinking about and recommending to people.

Andrew Michael: [00:33:38] It's funny. I was actually thinking about something very similar lines this morning.

Um, just a slightly different viewpoints on it was like this concept of always be learning. Um, and how do you measure if you're actually learning or not? And, uh, I was thinking about it, like in the context of the show. So had some amazing guests obviously join and every once in a [00:34:00] while, like I really get schooled on something and like, I get.

It's taken a step back and like, Whoa. Wow. That's an interesting perspective. That's something totally new that I haven't heard before. Uh, and I think like for me, those are like learning moments where like you might be reading all the time. You might be sort of like keeping up to speed with the latest trends what's happening, like listening to podcasts, but it says points in time when you actually get schooled and.

If you don't have those moments, like maybe you're not challenging yourself enough. Maybe you're not putting yourself in the right environment. So, uh, needing to maybe just step out of the comfort zone a little bit more, uh, to be able to learn more. I think so I think in your context, so it's slightly different.

Like you always want to be learning the now, like what's important to your space and time, but, uh, I think like you also need to challenge yourself as that. What are you actually learning? Is it actually just a regurgitation of the same old, same old, or is it every now and again that you really getting taken back and seeing, okay.

Wow. That is like something really powerful that I can [00:35:00] apply my life and take forward with me. Um, But yeah, just rambling on now. My thoughts this morning,

Ziv Peled: [00:35:09] what do you relate to that? I think that, uh, what I'm saying is differently learning, but I think that I'm adding in another dimension next to it. Is that, what should they learn now?

What is. For me to know now. And I think like, you know, when I see new team leaders, they're getting a team of, uh, five CSMs and, you know, they are frontline managers, so they still work with customers. So they're, they're Claire, Claire coach. Um, and then their life now changed to be a lot more ACTIC, do you need to speak with customers, but also think about the individual contributor that David, uh, lead on the other side.

And I, and I think that that juggling. Um, you always need to stop for a second and say, Oh, what, what, what, what do I do? No, that I must know [00:36:00] now, what is the next thing for me? And et cetera.

Andrew Michael: [00:36:04] Yeah, I like that. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes you don't know what you don't know as well, but, uh,

Ziv Peled: [00:36:10] then maybe you would need to ask someone next to you or someone above you.

Uh, what, what do I, uh, what don't do? Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Michael: [00:36:19] But I liked that as one, like the point that you make as, or like, I think there's so much to be learning all the time. Uh, but really like. Having that hyper focus on what's important for you to learn right? This moment in time, like, eh, there's an endless list of things that you can learn, but there's only a small amount that are actually relevant and practical and important at any given time.

So I like that focus. Well, Ziv, it's been a pleasure having you on the show today. Uh, thank you so much for joining. Um, I guess I think we'll probably end up speaking in episode 200, uh, somewhere around there. We'll have these cages on the end, but one 50, but thanks so much. It's been a pleasure having you [00:37:00] today, and I wish you best of luck now in the, this next chapter.

I think it's going to be an exciting one for you, for sure.

Ziv Peled: [00:37:05] Thank you so much.

Andrew Michael: [00:37:07] Thanks, cheers.

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