[00:00:00] Sivan More: If the relationship is great and the product complexity allows it, great. Otherwise, think about building more skills-based organizations specialising these roles across different personas.

[00:00:13] Andrew Michael: ⁓ This is Churn.fm, the podcast for subscription-economy pros. Each week we hear how the world’s fastest-growing companies are tackling churn and using retention to fuel their growth.  
How do you build a habit-forming product? We crossed over that magic threshold to negative churn. You need to invest in customer success— it always comes down to retention and engagement. Completely boot-strategy, and growing. Strategies, tactics and ideas brought together to help your business thrive in the subscription economy. I’m your host, Andrew Michael, and here’s today’s episode. Hey Sivan, welcome to the show.

[00:00:58] Sivan More: Hey Andrew, glad to be here.

[00:01:00] Andrew Michael: It’s great to have you. For the listeners, Sivan is the VP of Customer Success at HiBob, an HR-tech company that drives culture and employee engagement. Sivan has held customer-facing roles for over two decades now and, prior to HiBob, was the Global Director of Customer Success at Sisense. My first question for you today is: what drove you into a career in customer success?

[00:01:22] Sivan More: Andrew, it’s a lovely question to begin with. I think that space between the customer and the product has always been my safe space—where I can drive value with customers and show them what’s there for them to benefit from. Nowadays, as we look into the future, software is changing and services are changing: that space in-between keeps redefining itself. And I think this is the arena—this is where the most excitement, the greatest things are happening. So it’s my natural strength, my natural space to be in.

[00:01:50] Andrew Michael: Very nice. And, yeah, as you say, things are evolving constantly. That’s something we felt would be great to chat about today—what’s happened in the past with customer success and where it’s going in the future. Maybe just to kick us off: where do you see things going today at a high level?

[00:02:06] Sivan More: At a high level, things are really emerging into defining customer success and what the customer journey looks like using all those new technologies and all those new capabilities we didn’t have in the past, but really leaning on good practices that worked in the past and building systematically on top of them for the future.

[00:02:28] Andrew Michael: What are some of the specific things that worked well in the past that you see continuing to work well in future? And maybe what are some things you think won’t work as well in the future as they did in the past?

[00:02:39] Sivan More: The legacy of customer success has always been about creating the right journey and putting the right touch-points around it so customers know what the relationship with their CSM is, what services they’re getting, and when. As we evolved we made those journeys more predictable—because we learned that certain customers follow certain patterns—then, around 2022-2023, we got more prescriptive: we could predict the next customer action and proactively put a playbook, a template or a message in place.

[00:03:33] Andrew Michael: …and it’s just been a natural evolution from where it was to where it is today. I’m intrigued to hear how you’re seeing personalisation used effectively in this new age of customer success. Could you talk through a very specific use-case?

[00:03:54] Sivan More: Sure. Part of serving different customers in different ways is that we now have a lot more data on the specific use-cases each persona has. In the past we built adoption processes in the dark; now we actually understand personas. For example, if you’re a product manager logging in, you’ll likely be building a process. If you’re a team manager, you may need people-management functionality. As your CSM, I need to equip you with process-oriented or people-oriented content accordingly. In HiBob’s HCM platform we know the personas, so we can provide managers, recruiters, hiring managers, L&D professionals—each with targeted guidance. …

[00:05:27] Andrew Michael: The skills side you mentioned—the different levels—let’s double-click into that. Maybe tell us about HiBob’s journey and building a scalable team. What’s dynamic segmentation look like now?

[00:05:48] Sivan More: …(dynamic-segment “fish-tank” analogy, metadata on growth >30 %, fundraising etc., clustering customers, building playbooks, moving from predictive to prescriptive to AI-driven personalisation while respecting privacy)…

[00:07:47] Andrew Michael: So personalisation versus privacy—have you had interesting debates internally about where to stop?

[00:08:20] Sivan More: Definitely. We use benchmarking data so we can offer, say, process-oriented content without having to label you a “project manager”. If that resonates, great; if not, we adjust. We’re careful not to intrude, but we still strive to be helpful and proactive. …

[00:09:58] Andrew Michael: With tools like Clay pulling enrichment signals (fast growth, funding rounds) you can add a next layer of personalisation, e.g. “Congrats on your new round…”—but it can also feel creepy. Thoughts?

[00:10:20] Sivan More: The benefit of CS is that customers expect us to know. We manage the relationship. So “congrats on your promotion—here’s how to get more value” is often welcome. And yes, there’s trial-and-error. …

[00:11:25] Andrew Michael: Product feedback and white-space analysis in CS software still feels behind compared with sales tooling. Have you found anything that really works?

[00:12:03] Sivan More: Not yet. I answer every LinkedIn pitch but haven’t seen a CS tool that delivers solid adoption + value scores and surfaces engagement white-space well. If someone listening has one—I’d love to see it. …

[00:12:46] Andrew Michael: Let’s shift to people. How do you develop a skills-based CS organisation? What traits matter most for the future?

[00:12:57] Sivan More: (1) Curious, adaptive problem-solvers—comfortable with data, A/B-testing, building their own automations.  
(2) Systems thinkers—designing repeatable solutions, thinking end-to-end, not just one-to-one.  
(3) Commercially-minded—storytelling with data, translating it into value and ROI, defending value without friction.  
(4) Emotionally-intelligent and customer-centric—building human connection, encouraging critical thinking, balancing one-to-many digital with high-touch 1:1. …

[00:15:06] Andrew Michael: I’m picturing some of the best CSMs I’ve worked with—curiosity is constant. They’re the ones now picking up new tools fastest. …

[00:17:22] Sivan More: Exactly. When CSMs are commercially-minded, commercial results follow—but never at the expense of adoption. Depending on product complexity, you may combine or separate roles, but the traits stand. …

[00:20:04] Andrew Michael: From 2022 onward the market definitely shifted: CS has to own revenue. The “will it ruin the relationship?” debate seems over. …

[00:21:52] Sivan More: In the future, with more personalisation, it will depend on depth of relationship and product complexity. Bring the right expert to the right conversation—sometimes that’s a commercial expert, sometimes a relationship lead. …

[00:22:27] Andrew Michael: Early-stage automations and processes—what excites you most?

[00:22:57] Sivan More: Skills-based orgs, predictive risk triggers, tech-touch upsell/renewal, community as rich, searchable content. AI should bring on-demand personalised content and peer-to-peer connections while safeguarding privacy. …

[00:25:45] Andrew Michael: Education’s ripe for disruption too—core human skills (collaboration, creativity, critical thinking, communication, community) are timeless. …

[00:28:58] Sivan More: Community builds relationships customers won’t want to churn away from. With the right protections, customers talking to customers is a retention lever by itself. …

[00:31:03] Andrew Michael: Rapid-fire KPI round—what mattered in the past vs. the future?

[00:31:06] Sivan More: Classic SaaS metrics (NDR, GDR, ARR) will remain, but targets will rise thanks to AI. We’ll add things like ARR-per-intervention and re-defined time-to-value. …

[00:31:56] Andrew Michael: I think revenue per employee will matter more—it’ll show how well a company leverages AI for efficiency. …

[00:33:13] Sivan More: Ultimately SaaS helps customers save € or make €. Better adoption + health scores will become leading indicators feeding that revenue-per-employee ratio. …

[00:34:01] Andrew Michael: Lean orgs—how lean is too lean? Being a systems thinker, spotting inefficiencies, eliminating humans-in-the-loop where appropriate… …

[00:36:23] Sivan More: If agents fix bugs and file PRs automatically, what roles bridge the software-service gap? True SMEs, adoption strategists, journey architects, renewal analysts, community orchestrators, automation designers… …

[00:38:48] Andrew Michael: Information-architect-type roles will matter: structuring knowledge so LLMs can self-serve customers. …

[00:39:59] Sivan More: Agreed—good content in means good answers out. …

[00:40:09] Andrew Michael: Two closing questions I ask every guest. First: what’s one thing you know today about churn & retention you wish you’d known starting out?

[00:40:16] Sivan More: That it’s so human-focused. It’s the people’s interests, not just systems, data or ROI.

[00:40:28] Andrew Michael: And what’s one question you wish people asked you, but they don’t?

[00:40:31] Sivan More: “What are the secret ingredients of empowering our customers?”

[00:40:36] Andrew Michael: And your answer?

[00:40:41] Sivan More: Know the person on the other side, know what motivates them, and understand the value they must drive internally—then equip them accordingly with the right actions, content and expertise.

[00:41:28] Andrew Michael: Final thoughts before we wrap up?

[00:41:36] Sivan More: We made lots of predictions—let’s hear the listeners’! Above all, remember: customer success is about relationships. Automate everything that doesn’t require the human magic but never lose that magic.

[00:42:20] Andrew Michael: Perfect way to close. We’ll link everything in the show-notes. Thanks so much for joining, Sivan, and best of luck!

[00:42:32] Sivan More: Thanks, Andrew—pleasure was mine!

[00:42:37] Andrew Michael: …and that’s a wrap for the show. To keep up-to-date with Churn.fm, subscribe on your favourite app or at churn.fm. Feedback? Send it to andrew@churn.fm. If you enjoyed this episode please share it and leave a review—it really helps grow the community. Thanks for listening—see you next week!

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